Penile melanosis photos


1% of all melanomas [ 1 ]. This spot appeared a couple years ago. discharge. Oct 31, 2022 · Helpline: 9626700900 WhatsApp us: 9626700900 Location: https://goo. Signs of penile cancer include sores, discharge, and bleeding. Feb 26, 2024 · Treatment of pearly penile papules with cryotherapy. The clinical appearance may be strikingly atypical with large multifocal and irregular dark macular pigmentation, often rendering clinical distinction from genital melanoma difficult without adequate histologic sampling. Histopathological examination after incision biopsy revealed a Dec 20, 2020 · Penile melanoma is a cancer of the penis that forms from the pigment-producing cells in the skin of the penis. 142(4):847-8. Genital lentiginosis is an uncommon condition of pigmented genital macules that has also been referred to as penile lentigenes, atypical penile lentigenes, 1 vulvar melanosis, 2 and melanotc macules. Discharge, bleeding, or foul smell from the penis. 2000 Apr. [QxMD MEDLINE Link]. Sores or lumps from penile cancer usually don't hurt, but they might. Dec 20, 2018 · Vitiligo is a skin condition that causes spots or patches of skin to lose melanin. 1% of melanoma cases [1, 5]. Currently, no causative or risk factors have been identified for Lentiginosis of Penis. Conditions like AIDS can lead to penile cancer. BCC is a slow-growing form of penile cancer. Tests that examine the penis are used to diagnose penile cancer. Another possible cause may be the human papilloma virus (HPV). It is most frequently located on the glans (55%), followed by the prepuce (28%), penile shaft (9%) and urethral Penile melanotic macules, a benign acquired melanosis generally observed in adulthood, may be present on the shaft of the penis or on the glans penis and can mimic mucosal melanoma. Although PAM changes slowly, it can lead to malignant ocular melanoma . Wart-like growth or lesion that may or may not be painful. Undergo glutathione therapy. (3) (10) Epidemiology. In this cohort study of 129 patients with vulvar melanosis and 5 to 20 years of follow-up, 67% of vulvar melanotic lesions appeared in premenopausal patients, and 65% of all patients had received some type of hormone therapy; in about 30% of patients, the lesions increased in size and changed color after initial evaluation but ultimately stabilized. Lesions can also be found in the mouth (oral melanotic macule), on the vulva (vulval labial melanotic macule; vulval melanosis) or on the penis (penile melanotic macule). New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. foul-smelling discharge throwawaymelos. Research suggests penile Bowen disease is linked to human papillomavirus (HPV). There is no specific cause of penile melanosis, but severe injuries, age, genetic conditions, and skin treatments may contribute to its development. Consult a doctor now to discuss details. In most cases, biopsy is indicated. This condition typically manifests as dark brown or black spots or even freckles, which may be slightly or noticeably darker than the surrounding skin. Penile melanosis or melanoma? Physician Responded. Smoking is also a risk factor. NSFW SPOILER. Patients had follow-up for 3 to 13 years; enlargement of …. min. Penile cancer is a rare type of cancer and occurs on the foreskin, the glans (head) of the penis, or on the skin of the penile shaft. Five patients with penile melanosis are described. An association with vulval (Vu) and penile (Pe) squamous cell carcinoma (SCC) is now well established. Melanosis refers to a buildup of melanin. I noticed the process gets faster during days I Doctors often use survival rates as a standard way of discussing a person's outlook (prognosis). Color changes. Specialty. These spots are non-cancerous (benign) and usually have no associated symptoms. changes in the color of Apr 26, 2023 · Penis health is an important part of your health. Histologically, penile melanosis is characterized by hyper- Dec 11, 2022 · 1. Squamous cell carcinoma. It occurs mostly in uncircumcised men (men who still have foreskin around the head of the penis). These cells clump together in a single space and cause melanosis spots, which are dark brown or black dots. Patients had follow-up for 3 to 13 years; enlargement of some lesions was observed, but the condition remained benign. Oct 26, 2023 · Penile cancer is a rare cancer that develops in the skin or tissues of the penis. Penile Melanosis or penile lentiginosis is a rare skin condition that causes dark brown patches on the shaft or head of the penis. Eczema - both atopic and contact allergic dermatitis. Penis problems can be a sign of another health condition. it. 1 Lesions present in adult life as multifocal, asymmetrical, pigmented patches that can have a mottled appearance or exhibit skip areas. (This is not the place to ask for personal medical advice) Oct 28, 2023 · Limited data in the literature suggests that PM generally has a poor clinical prognosis. In males, the penis is mostly involved; while in females, the vulva is the chief site of these macules. Differential diagnosis between benign and malignant lesions in genital sites is often challenging, and non‐invasive techniques represent an important tool to avoid biopsies when not needed. a smelly discharge under the foreskin. It often can be cured if found early. Photodynamic therapy is also safe and Jul 18, 2021 · Pigmented Bowen’s disease is a rare subtype accounting for 2%–5% of all cases. 1989 May. They’re usually under a centimeter and painless. [2 - 5] Different dermoscopic patterns has been identified in cases of mucosal melanosis but there are few reported cases about findings in male melanosis. 42/male. 2. Jun 29, 2023 · Consult Now. But there are other To diagnose penile melanosis, look for dark spots. Pearly penile papules: treatment with the carbon dioxide laser. PUVA therapy is safe and effective, but it can be expensive. Yes. The irregular appearance of the pigmented areas often raises It’s characterized by small patches of dark skin on the penis. Dec 18, 2021 · Moreover, evidence found out that Penile Melanoma accounts for about 0. Erythema often well-demarcated, sometimes scaly. I also have a skin condition called lichen sclerosis for about 8 months that causes white patches on the penile head and sometimes discomfort. Learn more about penile melanosis and what you should do abo Mar 13, 2022 · Lentiginosis of Penis is a benign condition, in which there are darkly pigmented macules (flat areas of pigment change) on the penile shaft or glans penis (head). Accepted May 13, 2009. Instead, it can be caused by old age, genes, previous penis injury, and some skin treatments. May 1, 2017 · Genital melanosis is a relatively infrequent condition with an estimated incidence of 0. , 2013). Oct 28, 2023 · Penile melanoma (PM) is an extremely rare tumor, accounting for less than 2% of all penile cancers and less than 0. Flat, bluish-brown growths. The first case affected a 62-year-old male who presented with hematuria and a painful tumor in the distal urethra, leading to a suspicion of penile cancer. There are several types of penile cancer: squamous cell cancer (SCC) – the most common type of cancer of the Aug 12, 2023 · We retrospectively identified all patients with a diagnosis of penile malignant melanoma at our tertiary dermatology and urology centre over an 11‐year period (2011–2022) and reviewed the available histology, medical notes, and clinical photographs for evidence of male genital lichen sclerosus. Besides, penile melanosis isn't contagious or infectious, meaning you can't transmit it to another person. Surgery, radiation, and chemotherapy are commonly used to treat Sep 3, 2021 · Dark spots on the penis may be alarming, but they are often harmless and nothing to worry about. Sep 16, 2023 · While the exact cause of penile melanosis remains unclear, it is believed to stem from an overproduction or accumulation of melanin, the pigment responsible for skin coloration. This doesn’t spread and isn’t harmful. Penile melanoma more commonly affects the elderly in the sixth to seventh decade of life, unlike cutaneous melanoma, which primarily affects adults in their fifth decade of life Nov 2, 2023 · Penile melanosis, also known as genital melanosis, refers to hyperpigmented patches or spots that appear on the skin over the shaft of the penis, foreskin, glans, median raphe (a seam-like structure on the underside of the penis) or scrotum. Is it penile melanosis or fungal infection? Urgent. Let others know if this answer was helpful. Frequency. Magid M, Garden JM. 13,211 (2020) [1] Penile cancer, or penile carcinoma, is a cancer that develops in the skin or tissues of the penis. PAM is typically seen in middle-aged and May 12, 2023 · The signs and symptoms of penile cancer include: a lump on the skin. 1a, ,1b). Different types of penile cancer can start from these cells. These melanoma pictures can help show you what to look for. These numbers can’t tell you how long you will live, but they might help you better understand your prognosis. Summary. Penile melanoma results from a malignant transformation of melanocytes in the neuroectodermal layer. •. Balanitis - inflammation of the head of the penis, many causes. Histopathologic examination demonstrates basal layer hyperpigmentation without atypia of melanocytes. 1, 2 It manifests as a slow-growing, well-defined, hyperpigmented macule, with a flat, velvety, or scaling surface and is a known melanoma simulator. Mucosal melanoma is an extremely rare malignancy that comprises less than 4% of all melanomas and accounts for less than 2% of all primary penile malignant lesions (1, 2). The most common site of the cancer is the glans penis (rounded head or tip) part of the penis. Jan 17, 2021 · Penile melanosis refers to patches of brown or dark brown skin on the penis. This penile melanosis cause can also spread to other parts of the body, such as glands, other organs, and lymph nodes (It occurs throughout the body and Aug 12, 2020 · Findings. brown, black, tan, red, blue, and even white, often Sep 1, 2021 · Pigmented Bowen’s disease is a rare subtype accounting for 2%–5% of all cases. Human papillomavirus infection may increase the risk of developing penile cancer. Penile melanosis is a rare condition that causes dark and discolored areas of skin on the head and shaft of the penis. The condition can cause embarrassment and distress and may lead to psychological problems. Disease Epidemiology Changes in the skin color. Mar 17, 2024 · HPV Penile Melanosis is a type of skin condition that affects the penis and can cause discomfort and anxiety to men who experience it. Change in skin thickness – The skin of the penis may become thicker or change texture. This change in color is known as hyperpigmentation, and it occurs when melanin (brown pigment) forms deposits in the surface layer of skin. Some people may choose to Photographs obtained from the video showed male genitalia in two views, with the penis in both views exhibiting unique pigmentation. 18% of melanoma cases in the research population of 220 candidates. The American Academy of Dermatology advises watching skin spots for: Asymmetry. Diameter greater than 1/4 inch (about 6 millimeters). (4) May 10, 2023 · A final diagnosis of penile melanosis was performed. Most penile cancers affect the skin covering the penis (foreskin), or the head or tip (glans) of the penis. I don't know if it's melanosis or melanoma, and I would like to have some penile melanosis is a rare type of penile problem that affects the skin and tissues of the penile. Melanoma is usually suspected until a biopsy is performed. Answered 2 years ago. The penis can have discoloured skin due to the unusual disorder known as penile melanosis. Older men and smokers are more likely to get penile cancer. Melanoma occurring on the penile shaft Sep 20, 2023 · Symptoms and traits to look out for include: raised or flat shape, often with irregular shape and borders, sometimes on an existing or new mole. 3. Firstly, Penile Melanosis is an uncommon disorder, with about 1 case out of 10,000 reported in various research studies. 1% of all melanoma cases (Bechara et al. These spots can also appear on a woman’s vulva, as well as on a person’s lips or cheeks Penile Neoplasms / diagnosis*. The average age of reported patients Penile melanosis is an uncommon benign primary pigmentary disorder affecting the penile shaft and/or glans. Penile melanosis is the most common cause of dark spots on the penis. Penile melanosis may also involve other pigment Dec 23, 2023 · Pain or burning with urination. 1, 2 The penile localization of pigmented Bowen’s disease has been rarely reported and has been mostly related to Jul 21, 2022 · Genital Melanotic Macules are observed on the male or female genitalia. Histologically only hyperpigmenta-tion of the basal cell layer was observed with no melanocytic hyperplasia. Govind S Mittal, Therapeia Skin Hair and ENT Centre, Bengaluru, Karnataka. Photo in comments. Melanoma occurring on the penile shaft Sep 9, 2023 · Penile melanosis can be treated with some treatments. You should see a doctor if you find any kind of new E-mail: vincenzo. It is benign (not harmful) and painless and occurs in one eye. a hard lump under the foreskin. It is asymptomatic and may gradually enlarge. I think it may have grown and gotten darker but not sure. This condition is harmless or benign and shouldn't be a cause for alarm. Open sore that won't heal. Melanoma is a more aggressive form of Primary penile melanomas are very rare, comprising <2% of all primary penile carcinomas and <0. Lump on the penis, sometimes looking similar to a wart. When the dark spots have irregular borders and change in color, they may be misdiagnosed as malignant lesions such as melanoma. Another treatment option is photodynamic therapy, which uses light to destroy cancer cells. If it's not detected and treated early, the cancer can become more advanced and cause additional symptoms, such as: Nov 19, 2022 · Only 13 reports (with 28 patients) were reported from 1948 to 2022 in a literature review on penile's melanoma. changes in skin color near the tip or on the shaft. 1, 2 The penile localization of pigmented Bowen’s disease has been rarely reported and has been mostly related Oct 21, 2023 · Vulvar melanosis, though typically benign, can be a source of concern due to its appearance. Nor is it contagious. thickening skin. 12 have published a series of cases, which respectively report 11 and six patients with melanoma of the penis. men of age between 15–72 years. We report the successful treatment of penile melanosis using the Q-switched ruby laser. burning. degiorgi@unifi. Suwa M, Takeda M, Bilim V, Takahashi K. Penile tumors are thought to be caused by body fluids that get trapped in the foreskin. Swollen lymph nodes in the groin if the cancer has spread. The majority of publications are case reports. A lump. Risk factors of penile cancer include human papillomavirus (HPV) infection, HIV infection, phimosis (the inability to retract the foreskin), and being over the age of 50. Penile intraepithelial neoplasia (PeIN) is the most common precancerous condition of the penis. If your partner is suffering from this condition, assuage them and encourage them not to worry about it. Diagnosis typically excludes other skin conditions like lichen sclerosus. It does not typically require treatment. This condition predominantly affects individuals with darker skin tones, although it can occur in people of all ethnicities. , 2013;Brady et al. It seems that this condition is called penile melanosis, and I saw plenty of articles stating that Laser therapy could help, even on the glans. Jan 28, 2022 · In most cases, it’ll be located on the head or foreskin instead of on the shaft of the penis. I tried an anti fugal cream and tacrolimus. gl/maps/4f5aF2GGhwnNWwnu6 Sakthi Fertility Hospital (Infertility & Test tube baby center i Nov 1, 2015 · Penile melanosis is a rare benign hyperpigmentation. It is unknown why melanocytes accumulate this way, and the exact causes of penile melanosis are unknown. Penile discharge or bleeding. The most common early symptoms of penile cancer include: Sores, redness, or irritation on the penis. Depending on their location on the penis, melanocytes can be considered cutaneous or mucosal. Multiple non-bleeding spots may be present; they don’t change shape or size over time. Oncology. Itch and poorly-defined erythema. In males, the glans penis is most commonly involved. These macules may be present for years, without much change in their size or color. Case presentation: Here, we describe two cases of PM. PeIN is a general term used to describe precancerous conditions of the penis that may develop into invasive squamous cell carcinoma (SCC) if they are not treated. 7 and Bechara et al. 18m 145 lb 5’9. Reddish rash. Penile melanosis is an unusual skin disorder that affects the head and shaft of the penis, causing a change in skin colour. sores. These brown or black macules are the key sign. Info: 22M, 180cm, 90kg, Colombia, no medical issues before, no medications, only 4 times using cannabis. This is usually a benign or harmless condition, which is characterized by small black or dark patches on the penis. The spots or lesions of darker skin can form on the head or shaft of the penis. Melanin helps to give your skin and hair color, so when these areas lose it, they become very light in color The first sign of penile cancer is usually changes to the skin of the penis. May 30, 2024 · Penile cancer is a type of cancer that forms in the tissues of the penis. If they aren’t washed away on a routine basis, they can have cancer-causing effects. Stillwell et al. Dec 16, 2023 · Melanoma pictures for self-examination. Penile cancer is definitely diagnosed with a biopsy. My questions: Hi. Tissue buildup – You may notice a buildup of May 20, 2023 · Penile melanosis is a harmless skin disorder that causes small patches of black skin to form on the shaft or head of your penis, which is also referred to as the glans. This is also known as macular hyperpigmentation. Penile melanosis is not a sexually transmitted disease (STD), nor is Penile melanosis is an accumulation of melanocytes in the skin of the penis. 1 , 2 , 3 Reports of an association with genital (G) melanoma (MM) have appeared in the literature. Proper diagnosis is essential to rule out malignancies. Is this penile melanosis? Physician Responded. The presence of numerous melanotic macules on the body may be associated with a variety of syndromes including Carney complex, Peutz-Jeghers syndrome, and LEOPARD syndrome. Border irregularity. 1, 2 It manifests as a slow-growing, well-defined, hyperpigmented macule, with a flat, velvety, or scaling surface and is a known melanoma simulator. During sexual arousal, the penis can take on a reddish, almost purple color because of the increased blood flow to its blood vessels and glands. Penile melanosis and lentiginosis may be seen in children and adults. I noticed this brown ish spot right at the top of my pee hole that appeared a few weeks ago. Thanks. Penile melanosis is not thought to increase the risk of cancer. Other symptoms of penile cancer can include: itching. While penile Bowen disease is considered precancerous, the skin lesions Symptoms of Penile Cancer. Ongoing health issues affecting your penis also can affect other areas of your life. While penile melanosis does not affect Carcinoma of the penis. The lesions consisted of macular hyperpigmentation of the penile shaft and/or glans. Archived post. Main symptoms of penile cancer. Melanoma is a serious form of skin cancer. It is closely linked to the human papillomavirus (HPV) and can often start with a lesion on the foreskin, head, or shaft of the penis that turns wart-like and oozes blood or foul-smelling fluid. Melanin is one of the main pigments in the skin, and people with more melanin have a darker skin tone. Aug 30, 2023 · Conjunctival primary acquired melanosis (PAM) is a pigmented, brown, flat patch on the conjunctiva — the clear tissue that covers the white of the eye (the sclera ). 2 proposed an algorithmic approach for the management of pigmented macules on the penis and also should be kept in mind. 4% of all penile cancers and less than 0. When seen in children, it may be associated with May 19, 2022 · Other, less common types of penile cancer form in different types of tissue: Basal cell carcinoma (BCC): Cancer begins in the bottom layer of your epithelium. The dermatologist basically said to be gentle, and that essentially living with it might be the best option, but frankly I'm not happy with that conclusion, at least for now. Some people want to know the survival statistics for people in similar situations, while others might not find the numbers helpful, or Jul 28, 2023 · The progression. It typically presents in the fourth decade of life as asymptomatic, large, multifocal patches of variegated pigmentation with irregular borders on The Dermatology Subreddit for Medical Professionals. The differences are important because they determine the seriousness of the cancer and the type of treatment needed. Histologically only hyperpigmentation of the basal cell layer was observed with no melanocytic hyperplasia. 01% of dermatologic patients. Treatment options include topical creams and surgery. A reddish, velvety rash under the foreskin. Hi I noticed several new brown/dark spots over my penis glans in the last 5 to 4 months. 1, 2 Current literature on the topic is limited. . PeIN refers to abnormal cell changes, called. Epidermoid cyst of the penis: a case report and review of the Jul 31, 2022 · The cause of penile melanosis is unknown, but it is thought to be related to sun exposure, genetics, and other factors. The most common treatment type is PUVA therapy, which uses artificial sunlight to cure the condition. carcinoma in situ. The second case involved a 68-year-old male who Faithlessness2944. Genital lentiginosis (also known as mucosal melanotic macules, vulvar melanosis, penile melanosis, and penile lentigines) occurs in men and women. How are genital disorders diagnosed? Penile Melanosis. Genital melanotic macules or melanosis (harmless brown marks in which there is more pigment in the skin cells) Mucosal melanoma (a rare form of skin cancer in which there is an uncontrolled proliferation of pigment cells) Pearly penile papules; Peyronie disease, in which a fibrous band appears on the penis. Jun 26, 2017 · Genital melanosis and lentiginosis is a benign condition that is characterized by irregular pigmentation of the genital mucosa. Apart from melanin, other pigmentary deposits such as Feb 1, 2023 · Inflammatory conditions (usually erythematous or pink) and/or swelling of the skin. Swelling at the end of the penis. Symptoms may include abnormal growth, an ulcer or sore on the skin of the penis, and bleeding or foul smelling discharge. I've had this spot for quite some time, but my memory is fuzzy, so I don't know if this spot has been that big or if it has increased in size. When too much of melanin (the pigment that gives colour to the skin) gets deposited in one spot, the area turns darker leaving a spot. 34 years old. Smelly discharge (fluid) or bleeding under the foreskin. Change in the skin of the penis. After penile cancer has been diagnosed, tests are done to find Jun 13, 2019 · Fordyce spots are tiny white or yellowish bumps that can develop on the head or the shaft of the penis. Photographs obtained from the video showed male genitalia in two views, with the penis in both views exhibiting unique pigmentation. Answered 11 months ago. It's more than the ability to get and keep an erection, ejaculate and reproduce. Warm regards Dr. Melanoma: This cancer begins in cells that control how dark or light your skin is, called melanocytes. Psoriasis - can be itchy. Br J Dermatol. Penile melanosis is a rare skin condition that can affect any man between the ages of 15 to 75, causing brown patches on the head of the penis. 1 Maatouk et al. Discoloration of the penis. 1b ). bleeding from the penis or under the foreskin. 36,068 in 2020 [1] Deaths. When concentrated deposits of melanin accumulate on the surface of your skin, this condition might develop. The most common symptoms are: a growth, lump or sore that does not heal within 4 weeks; a rash; bleeding from your penis or under your foreskin; a smelly discharge; difficulty pulling back your foreskin Luckily, melanoma is very rare on the lip (but it can occur). Both females and males may be affected. Similar freckles may also occur in areas that are not exposed to the sun: Inside the mouth (oral melanotic macules) On the vulva in women (vulval labial melanotic macule, vulval melanosis) On the penis in men (penile melanotic macule, a penile lentigo). Typically, PM develops on the surface of the glans, but it can also originate from the inner surface of the foreskin, meatus, navicular fossa, and distal urethra. Lichen sclerosus (LSc) is a chronic, inflammatory, destructive skin disease with a predilection for the genitalia (GLSc). J Dermatol Surg Oncol. Penile melanosis is also known as penile lentiginosis. formation of crusty bumps. About 95% of penile cancers start in flat skin cells called squamous cells Jun 6, 2024 · Quick summary. Persistent, smelly discharge under the foreskin. People with penile cancer may experience a range of different symptoms including: a growth or sore on the head of the penis (the glans), the foreskin or the shaft of the penis that doesn’t heal in a couple of weeks. Penile lentiginosis is a pigmented macular lesion with variegated color and irregular borders, usually appearing in adults. Have an appointment to get it checked. The distinctive feature of penile melanosis is that it doesn't come Jan 22, 2024 · Penile Melanosis. INTRODUCTION. of the glans and shaft of the penis usually affecting. They can cause stress, relationship problems or low self-confidence. It occurs when normally healthy cells in the penis grow out of control and a tumor is formed. Such spots can occur on the skin of the penis and the condition is called penile melanosis. They continue to get a stronger tone once the weeks pass and O do feel sometimes a light itch in one area. Penile melanosis is typically asymptomatic Apr 4, 2017 · Penile melanoma accounts for 1. The skin changes may include: Color change – The skin may become darker or lighter or may change color from flesh-toned to red. Penile melanosis is not a disease you get from having sex. Almost all penile cancers start in skin cells of the penis. otherwise few creams also availablefor detailed prescription do direct online consultation by sending photos. Small, crusty bumps. Would suggest to see a doctor in person or to at least see over online consultation so as to suggest treatment measures, if any. Penile melanosis treatment options Hello, Male, 33yo, uncircumcised About 10 months back I had balanitis, I've used a cream against athlete's foot, and apparently had a bad reaction to it, long story short that burned quite badly my glans, and in return created some quite severe hyperpigmentation at the top of the glans. This too is nothing to worry about. Often harmless, penile melanosis is known to trigger tiny darkish patches on the head or shaft of the penis. . An analogous condition that occurs in males is called penile melanosis. Apr 26, 2022 · For men, a dark pigmented penile area can be a sign of Penile melanosis. We appraised this case with the cooperation of dermatologists, who diagnosed the pigmentation as male genital melanosis, a relatively rare disease, which matched that on the suspected perpetrator’s penis. In this article, we will explore the causes, symptoms, and treatment options available for HPV Penile Melanosis, as well as natural remedies, prevention strategies, and possible complications associated with this condition. These spots are typically large and flat, with each one appearing alone. The main differential diagnostic Aug 8, 2017 · An irregularly bordered hyper pigmented macule, unequally coloured, was clinically observed in the peripheral part of the glans penis, while apigmented macule was established in the central area. Treatment. Nov 25, 2021 · A mucosal melanocytic macule is a well-defined, oval, brown to black, flat patch, usually found on the lip (a labial melanocytic macule). An ulcer (sore) that might bleed. An erythematous macule with irregular borders was also presented ( Fig. 15(5):552-4. It is a very rare cancer as only 220 cases of penile melanoma have been reported worldwide so far. zi ab pg by rl my td hp zr mu